Heh. I didn't mean I was going to copy Tolkien precisely. But I use Tolkien the way many writers use Shakespeare. They may not imitate a particular Shakespearean piece directly (e.g. West Side Story is a loose adaptation of Romeo and Juliet), but they may have a particular Shakespearean theme or story in mind, with some references to it.
I had the Council loosely in mind, of course, but more the Last Debate chapter of ROTK.
In both of those there is a council/debate scene that is somewhat stylized and serves the additional function of providing an organized, dramatic format where one can have the whole "cast" come together without it being too confusing, thereby helping sum up the cast and story and all the complex plot threads before launching into a new chunk.
But there's one Tolkien theme in particular I've been playing with: the "fool's hope" of Gandalf.
I discovered two Elvish words for hope in Tolkien's lexicon. One is amdír, translated as "hope based on rational expectations, extrapolations". The roots of the word are an ("to, towards, ahead") and tíro, "I look." Denethor (book, not movie) was a hyper-realist who crashed and burned horribly because he looked ahead, and, rationally, saw that there was no way to win. He considered taking the Ring to Mordor a "fool's hope." He despaired because he couldn't hang his heart on a slim chance.
The other form of hope is estel, translated "hope, faith, trust." This is the name Elrond gave Aragorn when he adopted the boy as his son. It pops up again and again: Sam and Frodo both decided to keep going, several times, even when they see absolutely no chance of success. At the end, Aragorn leads an army to the Black Gates in full realization that they'll probably all die. But he does it, because he believes... there might still be a chance. Or at lest, even if they don't survive, it may hold Sauron's attention enough to give Frodo a slim chance. A fool's hope. Very much like Auron, plodding along with his oaths and his purpose, with no idea how to defeat Yunalesca or Yu Yevon, but an unshakable conviction that he has to keep putting one foot in front of another, that he has to keep going even if the odds are impossible.
Baralai in this story is sounding a lot like Denethor. He's a rationalist. He's right: this is a damned fool idea!
But Lucil has opted for the "fool's hope".
Auron's speech about how Lulu still has faith was, indirectly, a reference to estel.
Or, as it's put in Babylon 5 (which also consciously draws from Tolkien) "if you're falling off a cliff, you might as well try to fly."
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Heh. I didn't mean I was going to copy Tolkien precisely. But I use Tolkien the way many writers use Shakespeare. They may not imitate a particular Shakespearean piece directly (e.g. West Side Story is a loose adaptation of Romeo and Juliet), but they may have a particular Shakespearean theme or story in mind, with some references to it.
I had the Council loosely in mind, of course, but more the Last Debate chapter of ROTK.
In both of those there is a council/debate scene that is somewhat stylized and serves the additional function of providing an organized, dramatic format where one can have the whole "cast" come together without it being too confusing, thereby helping sum up the cast and story and all the complex plot threads before launching into a new chunk.
But there's one Tolkien theme in particular I've been playing with: the "fool's hope" of Gandalf.
I discovered two Elvish words for hope in Tolkien's lexicon. One is amdír, translated as "hope based on rational expectations, extrapolations". The roots of the word are an ("to, towards, ahead") and tíro, "I look." Denethor (book, not movie) was a hyper-realist who crashed and burned horribly because he looked ahead, and, rationally, saw that there was no way to win. He considered taking the Ring to Mordor a "fool's hope." He despaired because he couldn't hang his heart on a slim chance.
The other form of hope is estel, translated "hope, faith, trust." This is the name Elrond gave Aragorn when he adopted the boy as his son. It pops up again and again: Sam and Frodo both decided to keep going, several times, even when they see absolutely no chance of success. At the end, Aragorn leads an army to the Black Gates in full realization that they'll probably all die. But he does it, because he believes... there might still be a chance. Or at lest, even if they don't survive, it may hold Sauron's attention enough to give Frodo a slim chance. A fool's hope. Very much like Auron, plodding along with his oaths and his purpose, with no idea how to defeat Yunalesca or Yu Yevon, but an unshakable conviction that he has to keep putting one foot in front of another, that he has to keep going even if the odds are impossible.
Baralai in this story is sounding a lot like Denethor. He's a rationalist. He's right: this is a damned fool idea!
But Lucil has opted for the "fool's hope".
Auron's speech about how Lulu still has faith was, indirectly, a reference to estel.
Or, as it's put in Babylon 5 (which also consciously draws from Tolkien) "if you're falling off a cliff, you might as well try to fly."